I believe that the reference here is to the work Toh 1451 (rim pa bzhi pa) and its autocommentary 1452.

regards, Kurt

Thank you so very much for your thoughts and speculations. You have offered such a wealth of possibilities that I haven’t had time to fully assimilate it yet, but I will reply with some more useful responses soon.

Reconsidering my ”journal notes” I took a closer look and found the following:

Dan Martin’s Tibskrit – aside from mentioning the name Kân.ha (~ Kahna?) – presents the Vasantatilaka under the name Kr.s.n.âcârya; and (instead of Olacatustaya) an Alicastus.t.aya (~ Âlicatus.t.aya?) under the name Kr.s.n.a.

The reference to Dpal nag po’i glu is given under the former (dated to the 11th century).

In Peking Tripitaka online search we can find – among many other titles – these 4 that seem to be – considering the names of the translators – of more direct interest in this context:

dbyid kyi thig le zhes bya ba / (vasantatilaka-nAma.)
[A] nag po pa / (kRSNa.), [Tr] chos kyi dbang phyug / (dharmezvara.), [Tr] blo gros bzang grags pa / (sumatikIrti.)

gsang ba’i de kho na nyid rab tu gsal ba zhes bya ba / (guhyatattvaprakAza-nAma.)
[A] nag po / (kRSNa.), [Tr] lha btsas / (devasUta.), [Rev] chos kyi dbang phyug / (dharmezvara.), [Tr] gayadhara., [Rev] zrI sumatikIrti.

rim pa bzhi po / ([AlicatuSTaya.])
[A] nag po pa / (kRSNa.), [Tr] grags pa shes rab / (kIrtiprajA.), [Tr] zrI sumatikIrti.
rim pa bzhi’i rnam par ‘byed pa zhes bya ba /

(AlicatuSTayavibhaGga-nAma.)
[A] nag po / (kRSNa.), [Tr] shes rab grags / (prajakIrti.)

In TS – as if echoing the Olapata ”bathsong” – under Kr.s.n.a we find a title: Khrus kyi cho ga sgrib pa sbyong zhing bar chod bsal ba.

In PT – among many similar titles – there is (without author or translators): khrus kyi cho ga sgrib pa sbyong zhing bar chod gsal ba / ([nivaraNazodhanAntarayApohasnaAnavidhi.])

A curious linguistic co-incidence, but hardly more. Still, where no one looks – at times – something may be found.

As to the somewhat cryptic (and perhaps unnecessary) mention of the crucial bath of Sri Simha (as an association bridge to Cînapati) – if indeed there is any need for it – I would refer to the following:

rDzogs chen snying thig lo rgyus chen mo (I don’t find the exact page now). There is a short translation by Jim Valby, ”The Great History of Garab Dorje, Manjushrimitra, Shrisingha, Jnanasutra and Vimalamitra” published in Italy by Shang Shung Edizioni, in 2002.

H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche’s ”The Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism, pp. 498, 501. The index of locations: Suvarn.advîpa in West India (kha che’i yul gser gling).

gZi yi phreng ba. A booklet (originally speech to Tibetan youth in 1975 or -6) by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu, published by LTWA in 1981, and 1989 by Narthang Publications as ”The Necklace of gZi – A Cultural History of Tibet”. A ”Chi na in Zhangzhung” (Narthang text) is mentioned there as the name of the residence of 2/18 ”Jaruchen” (~ bya ru can?) kings of Zhang zhung. The source is given as mTs(h)o ma pham lo rgyus.

The Free Encyclopedia article: ”Kinnaur district”.

A web article: ”Kinnaur Valley may have been the Land of Cina”. Further reference and some nice pictures can be found from there. Under golden heron.

To my regret I have not been able to study ”The Early Days of the Great Perfection”.

The Olipatti village, etc. can all be found via the net.

Regards,
I.T.

To begin with, if we think about the ”four folds” of rim pa bzhi or of catus.t.ayavibhan~ga (true diacritics missing here) – and take a look at the few words starting with ol in the Monier-Williams’ Sanskrit dictionary – we can find f. ex. olin with a referece to vâli, vâlin. Looking for vâli we then may find vali, valî (from val, ”to turn”) – meaning “a fold” ~ “a wave” ~ “a wrinkle”. In any case the very sound of ola /oli is ~ ”rounded” (valita).

If we then look for padi, (mudrâ is written mud tra sometimes) we can find a few words beginning with pâdi, padî – expressing meanings like “a quarter”, “25 %”, “a square”, “a fourth part” (i.e. including the idea of ”4”) – and pâda itself (of course) as a “verse” or “line” – ”the fourth part” of a regular stanza (as in Dhammapada).

That woud make ~ ”foldfour” (or even ~ ”wavefourths”), though; it seems.

Now, if (in spite of all obvious problems) the twists and turns of this winding path could be accepted “as normal” – might it be that we have stumbled (accidentally) at a cue? to a tolerable? (~ etymological?) answer? to the mystery of Olapati /Olacatus.t.aya-vibhan~ga???

The other writings by the author might, perhaps, really give a cue. Dan Martin’s Tibskrit Philology has this to tell, just for example:

Dge ‘dun chos ‘phel and Râhula San.kr.tyâyana found in a Tibetan monastery
an Indic manuscript of his songs. Translation of chap. 12 in: Dge ‘dun chos
‘phel, Works, vol. 2, pp. 415-421 (with the title: Dpal nag po’i glu, le’u bcu gnyis
pa).

If so, indeed: ”impressed on palm leaves”?!

[Just along the path: do you consider the ’bzhed pa in the title (as you have it in your note – instead of ‘byed pa – or, even, bzhad pa) just a “scribal” – or another cue?]

Back to the journal:

Of course the ola ~ oli may present here quite something else and can truly be the secret! – the key it seems to be; one more example of the ”bird talk” – so to say. Liquid sound! The Dravidian dimension sounds inviting.

And ola as a secret is confirmed:
As you mention – from the Dravidian Etymological Dictionary we can quote this:
Tu. oḷa secret, private; oḷavu, oḷāvu secret thought; oḷaguṭṭu a secret; uḷavu one’s secret.

But then again:
In Brown’s Telugu – English dictionary olapata ~ ôlapât.a is said to mean ”a song used while bathing or swimming”. ”A boat song”. The word comes close.

And to compare with this image we can find, as you mention, in the Dravidian:
Tu. olapu, olampu, olpe cleanliness, purity; lumbuni to plunge, wash, rinse.
And what might be more: For their own oral epic tradition the Tulu singers use a term connoting ‘song’, pad?dana (written here as it appears on the original wikipage – of BC Hindu Oral Traditions). And Tulu is considered, by some scholars, as the oldest of Dravidian languages. In any case it is ancient!
In Tamil, too, there is an echo:
Ta. pāṭu (pāṭi-) to sing, chant, warble, hum; pāṭal versifying, song; pāṭi singer; tune; pāṭṭu singing, song, music; pā verse, stanza, poem; pāvalar poets.
We might then remember the vasantatilaka as a metre, too ~ ”Spring Drop”.

Or, we might think (now remembering Sri Simha’s crucial bath) of Cînapat.t.a /Cînapati (and of Kinnaur ~ Chini Tehsil??).

And following that line we might – as well, who knows – ask the opinion of the Olipattians themselves! For it seems there is – today! – a village (of some 665 inhabitants) in Uttar Pradesh, Deoria district, with that name.

And, if we wish, and still have strength, we might find some interesting sounding Dravidian speakers in Central India and North:

Ollari speakers, of course, for one.
The Oraons. The rumour goes, they can be met in Bhutan now. Indian Adivasi people – their language related to Brahui. Black in complexion, with curly hair, rich in vast range of songs, dances, tales of ancient origin.

As Kanha, too, probably was.

I must stop.
In any case: All the Best and a Good beginning for the Earth Mouse Year!

Yours,
I.T.

o li pad ti tan tra

This should probably be reconstructed as Olipatti tantra. For instance, we also have ba dzra svad tva for Vajrasattva. Note the double “t” and see my new note at the end of the main post on possible South Indian elements of the name.

Yes, the fact that the writer of PT 849 calls the Olipati/Olapati a tantra is problematic, but the fact is his list is already problematic. For example, he includes some categories (like “yogini tantra”) as if they were names of tantras. Something was clearly lost in translation.

Anyway, I think it would be useful at this point to take a close look at the original scroll (via the miracle of microfilm) and report back.

More later!

I think you are right that Olapati means (somehow) Rim-pa Bzhi-pa, or ‘Four Stages.’ And like you I am also totally unable to explain how that could be. Perhaps I could ask a neighboring expert in South Indian languages?

I don’t have Dhongthog 1977 (or do you really mean 1976?), but I’m quite sure there is some source of confusion there. Among the many texts by the Black Man (Nag-po-pa, Nag-po Spyod-pa), there is one called Four Stages (Tohoku no. 1451), and another very distinct one called Spring Drop (not drop of delight), or, in Tibetan Dpyid-kyi Thig-le, and in Sanskrit Vasantatilakâ (lengthmark on that final ‘a’). Of course Vasantatilakâ could at the same time have significant meaning, but the truth is it’s name of one of the more popular verse metres. Or we could interpret it to mean (as Yisun Chang dictionary does) ‘seed’ (as in that of plant or animal or human). In any case, the Vasantatilakâ (with its commentary by Vanaratna) was published in a very nice bilingual Sanskrit & Tibetan edition by the good people in Central Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies in Sarnath (and of course it’s in the Tanjur; Tohoku no. 1448).

I’m still puzzled by the word ‘tantra’ in the “Olipati Tantra” (O-li-pad-ti Tan-tra) in the Hackin edited Dunhuang text… That Black Man wrote an Olapati treatise (shâstra) is clear, but which tantra would be intended? That’s troubling for your conclusion… Not necessarily fatal, so no reason to sweat it.

I enjoyed these last two blogs, and think it’s a great question to ask. And if you don’t like this comment hanging on your blog page, feel free to read it and discard it. Seriously.

Yours,
Dab