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	<title>Comments on: The Decline of Buddhism I: Was Lang Darma a Buddhist?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/</link>
	<description>Notes, thoughts and fragments of research on the history of Tibet</description>
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		<title>By: sonam</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-1649</link>
		<dc:creator>sonam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 16:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-1649</guid>
		<description>this is a beautiful article. the new release of shakabpa&#039;s advanced political history book in english has more details. such as one day when his barber was cutting his hair...he noticed two horns in between lang dharma&#039;s hair. the barber was in a precarious situation after discovering this....and so on. great story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is a beautiful article. the new release of shakabpa&#8217;s advanced political history book in english has more details. such as one day when his barber was cutting his hair&#8230;he noticed two horns in between lang dharma&#8217;s hair. the barber was in a precarious situation after discovering this&#8230;.and so on. great story.</p>
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		<title>By: Tenzin</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-1402</link>
		<dc:creator>Tenzin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-1402</guid>
		<description>Well it doesn&#039;t mean that Lang Darma was a evil spirited. There were many reason why he did it and therefore each individual has their own opinion of his actions. There is no conventional point of view. I think he did it because he wanted to maintain Tibetan population because since Bhuddhism was so strong most of the girls and the boys were joining the monasteries and Tibetan population was decreasing. Also most of the lands were used to build monasteries. I think there is both pros and cons of his actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it doesn&#8217;t mean that Lang Darma was a evil spirited. There were many reason why he did it and therefore each individual has their own opinion of his actions. There is no conventional point of view. I think he did it because he wanted to maintain Tibetan population because since Bhuddhism was so strong most of the girls and the boys were joining the monasteries and Tibetan population was decreasing. Also most of the lands were used to build monasteries. I think there is both pros and cons of his actions.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: conceição</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>conceição</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-695</guid>
		<description>oh!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-691</link>
		<dc:creator>earlytibet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-691</guid>
		<description>Hi Dab,

Thank you for taking the time to practise your freedom of speech here. No stones will be thrown, and nobody will be kicked out.

It seems that the practice of the alms-round was a troublesome export for Buddhism, due to negative perceptions of begging in other cultures. At least I think this was true for East Asia. I also don&#039;t know of any other instance of the support of Buddhism through taxation of the local populace, although the exemption of Buddhist monks and monasteries from taxation was common at various times throughout Asia. And then of course many rulers directed large portions of their funds gained through taxation to the construction of temples and stupas.

When we look at the persecution of Buddhism in China in 842-845 (under the emperor Wuzong) we find the tax-exemption and wealthy monasteries are the main sources of resentment against the Buddhists. By the way, isn&#039;t it interesting that this historically well-attested persecution occurred at the &lt;i&gt;exactly&lt;/i&gt; the same time as the supposed persecution of Lang Darma / Ui Dumten?

It is interesting to see how the Chinese persecution developed (as you know, it was recorded in the diary of the Japanese monk Ennin). First smaller temples and shrines were destroyed and Buddhist priests not on government registers were made to disrobe. Then all monks under 50, and any monks over 50 without a government certificate were made to disrobe. Then the destruction of almost all of China&#039;s 4,600 Buddhist monasteries and nunneries was ordered, with the exception of one in every major prefecture and four in each of the two capitals (with a maximum limit of 30 monks apiece). Bronze images and bells were melted down and converted into coins, iron statues into agricultural implements. Images of gold and silver were to be turned over to the Bureau of Public Revenue. 

The imperial edict of 845 states:

&quot;From the mountains and wastes of the whole land to the walled palaces of the two capitals, the Buddhist monks daily increase in number, and their monasteries grow in glory. In exhausting men&#039;s strength in construction work, in robbing men for their own golden and jeweled adornments, in forsaking ruler and kin to support their teachers, in abandoning their mates for monastic rules, in flouting the laws and harming the people, nothing is worse than this religion. Now when one man does not farm, others suffer hunger, and when one woman does not weave, others suffer from cold. At present the monks and nuns of the empire are numberless, but they all depend on agriculture and sericulture for their clothing. The monasteries and temples are beyond count, but they all are lofty and beautifully decorated, daring to rival palaces in grandeur. None other than this is the reason for the decline in material strength and the weakening of the morals of the Chin, Ch&#039;i and Liang [dynasties].&quot; (K.S. Chen, Buddhism in China, p.231).

I&#039;m no Sinologist, but I think this helps us to see how the perceived economic dependency of Buddhism along with some general antipathy (the emperor Wuzong was a fundamentalist Daoist) can lead to an all-out persecution. As usual, Early Tibet will resist the temptation to read these conclusions on to modern history...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dab,</p>
<p>Thank you for taking the time to practise your freedom of speech here. No stones will be thrown, and nobody will be kicked out.</p>
<p>It seems that the practice of the alms-round was a troublesome export for Buddhism, due to negative perceptions of begging in other cultures. At least I think this was true for East Asia. I also don&#8217;t know of any other instance of the support of Buddhism through taxation of the local populace, although the exemption of Buddhist monks and monasteries from taxation was common at various times throughout Asia. And then of course many rulers directed large portions of their funds gained through taxation to the construction of temples and stupas.</p>
<p>When we look at the persecution of Buddhism in China in 842-845 (under the emperor Wuzong) we find the tax-exemption and wealthy monasteries are the main sources of resentment against the Buddhists. By the way, isn&#8217;t it interesting that this historically well-attested persecution occurred at the <i>exactly</i> the same time as the supposed persecution of Lang Darma / Ui Dumten?</p>
<p>It is interesting to see how the Chinese persecution developed (as you know, it was recorded in the diary of the Japanese monk Ennin). First smaller temples and shrines were destroyed and Buddhist priests not on government registers were made to disrobe. Then all monks under 50, and any monks over 50 without a government certificate were made to disrobe. Then the destruction of almost all of China&#8217;s 4,600 Buddhist monasteries and nunneries was ordered, with the exception of one in every major prefecture and four in each of the two capitals (with a maximum limit of 30 monks apiece). Bronze images and bells were melted down and converted into coins, iron statues into agricultural implements. Images of gold and silver were to be turned over to the Bureau of Public Revenue. </p>
<p>The imperial edict of 845 states:</p>
<p>&#8220;From the mountains and wastes of the whole land to the walled palaces of the two capitals, the Buddhist monks daily increase in number, and their monasteries grow in glory. In exhausting men&#8217;s strength in construction work, in robbing men for their own golden and jeweled adornments, in forsaking ruler and kin to support their teachers, in abandoning their mates for monastic rules, in flouting the laws and harming the people, nothing is worse than this religion. Now when one man does not farm, others suffer hunger, and when one woman does not weave, others suffer from cold. At present the monks and nuns of the empire are numberless, but they all depend on agriculture and sericulture for their clothing. The monasteries and temples are beyond count, but they all are lofty and beautifully decorated, daring to rival palaces in grandeur. None other than this is the reason for the decline in material strength and the weakening of the morals of the Chin, Ch&#8217;i and Liang [dynasties].&#8221; (K.S. Chen, Buddhism in China, p.231).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no Sinologist, but I think this helps us to see how the perceived economic dependency of Buddhism along with some general antipathy (the emperor Wuzong was a fundamentalist Daoist) can lead to an all-out persecution. As usual, Early Tibet will resist the temptation to read these conclusions on to modern history&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dab</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-690</link>
		<dc:creator>Dab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-690</guid>
		<description>Morning Early,

Isn&#039;t it exceedingly odd, though, this idea that the sangha should be supported financially through taxation?  (7 families made to pay for support of one monk, etc...)  What other Buddhist country ever had the idea?  I&#039;m not saying it couldn&#039;t have happened elsewhere, I&#039;d just like to know.  And why is it you are so surprised when you find a historical reference to monks walking about to beg for their mid-day meal?  Because it hardly ever happened in Tibet, that&#039;s why.  But hey, isn&#039;t this how they are supposed to gain their daily rice according to Buddhist scriptures, Vinaya, etc?  What gives here?  Sorry to sound antagonistic, but I hope my point is understood.  If Emperor Ui Dumtsen ended involuntary taxation used for monk support thereby forcing the monks to beg for their daily meals he was the true Buddhist hero, not the demon those monastic chronicles make him out to have been.  I&#039;ll be crawling back in my hole now if you need me.  Please don&#039;t throw stones.  I&#039;m nobody&#039;s tendra!  I like to think I&#039;m Buddhist.  And a person who believes in, and practices, freedom of speech.

Your
Dab</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morning Early,</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it exceedingly odd, though, this idea that the sangha should be supported financially through taxation?  (7 families made to pay for support of one monk, etc&#8230;)  What other Buddhist country ever had the idea?  I&#8217;m not saying it couldn&#8217;t have happened elsewhere, I&#8217;d just like to know.  And why is it you are so surprised when you find a historical reference to monks walking about to beg for their mid-day meal?  Because it hardly ever happened in Tibet, that&#8217;s why.  But hey, isn&#8217;t this how they are supposed to gain their daily rice according to Buddhist scriptures, Vinaya, etc?  What gives here?  Sorry to sound antagonistic, but I hope my point is understood.  If Emperor Ui Dumtsen ended involuntary taxation used for monk support thereby forcing the monks to beg for their daily meals he was the true Buddhist hero, not the demon those monastic chronicles make him out to have been.  I&#8217;ll be crawling back in my hole now if you need me.  Please don&#8217;t throw stones.  I&#8217;m nobody&#8217;s tendra!  I like to think I&#8217;m Buddhist.  And a person who believes in, and practices, freedom of speech.</p>
<p>Your<br />
Dab</p>
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		<title>By: conceição</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-631</link>
		<dc:creator>conceição</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-631</guid>
		<description>maybe it´s the queen wants another husband...and the legacy....ah!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>maybe it´s the queen wants another husband&#8230;and the legacy&#8230;.ah!</p>
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		<title>By: earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-630</link>
		<dc:creator>earlytibet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-630</guid>
		<description>Indeed, Richardson and others (e.g. Karmay) have pointed out that the Tibetan histories suggest that some elements in the Tibetan government were unhappy with the level of financial support given to the monasteries influence of the clergy in political life during the reign of Ralpachen. Karmay concludes that Lang Darma was swayed by this party and cut down the support for the monasteries, resulting in his assassination by a Buddhist monk. Yamaguchi, more controversially, claims that Lang Darma continued to support the Buddhists and for this reason was assassinated by the anti-Buddhist party, led by the Ba clan.

More on Lang Darma in my next post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, Richardson and others (e.g. Karmay) have pointed out that the Tibetan histories suggest that some elements in the Tibetan government were unhappy with the level of financial support given to the monasteries influence of the clergy in political life during the reign of Ralpachen. Karmay concludes that Lang Darma was swayed by this party and cut down the support for the monasteries, resulting in his assassination by a Buddhist monk. Yamaguchi, more controversially, claims that Lang Darma continued to support the Buddhists and for this reason was assassinated by the anti-Buddhist party, led by the Ba clan.</p>
<p>More on Lang Darma in my next post!</p>
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		<title>By: Rincevent</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-629</link>
		<dc:creator>Rincevent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-629</guid>
		<description>Hugh Richardson, in an article about the first diffusion of buddhism, argues that Lang Dharma was not killed because of his alleged bön faith, but because he decided to abolish the increasing &quot;privileges and donations given to monks and temple by his predecessors&quot;. It might not be a religious problem but only an affair of big money.

Anyway, this is an excellent blog ! Serious and interesting, just what I like. Keep on writing good stuff like this !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugh Richardson, in an article about the first diffusion of buddhism, argues that Lang Dharma was not killed because of his alleged bön faith, but because he decided to abolish the increasing &#8220;privileges and donations given to monks and temple by his predecessors&#8221;. It might not be a religious problem but only an affair of big money.</p>
<p>Anyway, this is an excellent blog ! Serious and interesting, just what I like. Keep on writing good stuff like this !</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: conceição</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator>conceição</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-627</guid>
		<description>there are 18 jungpo spirit  - they say in tibetan medicine, but i think he speak in a manner in which animals communicate - that´s why he is a jungpo, and that´s why he is killed by a Lama dance.

When a Guru dance - it´s so beautifull.

have a nice week end
thank you for your answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there are 18 jungpo spirit  &#8211; they say in tibetan medicine, but i think he speak in a manner in which animals communicate &#8211; that´s why he is a jungpo, and that´s why he is killed by a Lama dance.</p>
<p>When a Guru dance &#8211; it´s so beautifull.</p>
<p>have a nice week end<br />
thank you for your answers.</p>
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		<title>By: earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/28/lang-darma/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>earlytibet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=156#comment-625</guid>
		<description>Yes, it&#039;s true that the traditional histories believe that Lang Darma was possessed by an evil spirit. A jungpo (&#039;byung po) is one kind of spirit, but in fact Butön tells us it was another kind, a dön (gdon).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it&#8217;s true that the traditional histories believe that Lang Darma was possessed by an evil spirit. A jungpo (&#8216;byung po) is one kind of spirit, but in fact Butön tells us it was another kind, a dön (gdon).</p>
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