Comments on: Padmasambhava II: the dark Padmasambhava http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/ Notes, thoughts and fragments of research on the history of Tibet Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:21:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: earlytibet http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-1084 earlytibet Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:42:13 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-1084 Why not, of course? Unfortunately we will never know, I suspect, what Padmasambhava 'really' looked like. The Tibetan tradition, in any case, suggests that it's a false question. With eight completely different-looking manifestations, Guru Rinpoche is not to be tied down to any particular appearance, and that includes the colour of his skin. What we are looking at here are the ways Padmasambhava was represented. If the dark Padmasambhava pictured here seems suprising, it should not, I hope, be because anybody thinks he was 'white' but because this is an unfamiliar representation. Tibetan Buddhists, and many light-skinned followers of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, venerate past masters from India who are often depicted with dark skin: Virupa, Telopa, and many others. Nobody, I think, suggests that the colour of their skin is merely symbolic. Now I really recommend that you read Tibeto-Logic's excellent discussion of the perception of foreigners (dark-skinned and otherwise) in Tibet - <a href="http://tibeto-logic.blogspot.com/2009/01/black-bodhisattvas.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Why not, of course? Unfortunately we will never know, I suspect, what Padmasambhava ‘really’ looked like. The Tibetan tradition, in any case, suggests that it’s a false question. With eight completely different-looking manifestations, Guru Rinpoche is not to be tied down to any particular appearance, and that includes the colour of his skin. What we are looking at here are the ways Padmasambhava was represented. If the dark Padmasambhava pictured here seems suprising, it should not, I hope, be because anybody thinks he was ‘white’ but because this is an unfamiliar representation. Tibetan Buddhists, and many light-skinned followers of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, venerate past masters from India who are often depicted with dark skin: Virupa, Telopa, and many others. Nobody, I think, suggests that the colour of their skin is merely symbolic. Now I really recommend that you read Tibeto-Logic’s excellent discussion of the perception of foreigners (dark-skinned and otherwise) in Tibet – here.

]]> By: Campo http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-1080 Campo Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:43:44 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-1080 Why can't padmasambhava be a dark skin guy in reality? Some white people really have problems believing that such an important figure was a dark skinned indian? Wy does the darkness of his skin have to be always explained as symbolic or imaginary? Some people sound racist without even realizing it. There are plenty dark skinned people in India. Why not Padmasambhava simply? Why can’t padmasambhava be a dark skin guy in reality? Some white people really have problems believing that such an important figure was a dark skinned indian? Wy does the darkness of his skin have to be always explained as symbolic or imaginary? Some people sound racist without even realizing it. There are plenty dark skinned people in India. Why not Padmasambhava simply?

]]> By: a different dan http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-911 a different dan Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:31:03 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-911 Hi S and D. Sam, i can't seem to find your email address on this site, but if you want to send it to me i will give you the names and emails of some folks at the library. They may be willing to send you a photo? I sort of wish I were a journalist in Beijing, but I'm a grad student at U of Chicago. sorry to disappoint. :p d. Hi S and D.

Sam, i can’t seem to find your email address on this site, but if you want to send it to me i will give you the names and emails of some folks at the library. They may be willing to send you a photo?

I sort of wish I were a journalist in Beijing, but I’m a grad student at U of Chicago. sorry to disappoint. :p
d.

]]> By: earlytibet http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-906 earlytibet Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:03:32 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-906 Dear Dan and Dan, Thanks for the directions to this other dark Padmasambhava. I wish I could see this thangka - perhaps by flying over there on a tiger. S. Dear Dan and Dan,

Thanks for the directions to this other dark Padmasambhava. I wish I could see this thangka – perhaps by flying over there on a tiger.

S.

]]> By: Dan http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-904 Dan Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:45:00 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-904 Hi Dan M., The museum of the LTWA is in Gangchen Kyishong, way down the mountainside from McLeod G., actually closer to Dharamsala. But anyway, nice to make the acquaintance of the other Dan. Are you the journalist who usually works in Beijing? Yours, Dan Hi Dan M.,

The museum of the LTWA is in Gangchen Kyishong, way down the mountainside from McLeod G., actually closer to Dharamsala. But anyway, nice to make the acquaintance of the other Dan. Are you the journalist who usually works in Beijing?

Yours, Dan

]]> By: a different dan http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-879 a different dan Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:11:49 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-879 Hi, Sam. In case you weren't already aware, there's a similar dark-colored Padmasambhava thangka on display in the museum of the LTWA in McLeod Ganj. It struck me as odd when I saw it; thanks for the information. best, dan m. Hi, Sam.

In case you weren’t already aware, there’s a similar dark-colored Padmasambhava thangka on display in the museum of the LTWA in McLeod Ganj. It struck me as odd when I saw it; thanks for the information.

best,
dan m.

]]> By: C.L. http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-878 C.L. Fri, 12 Sep 2008 17:58:29 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-878 This gets more interesting all the time. Thanks. This gets more interesting all the time.
Thanks.

]]> By: Joshua Eaton http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-877 Joshua Eaton Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:05:45 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-877 I know there’s probably no connection, but this image almost reminds me of <a href="http://www.buddhistimages.co.uk/thangkas/images/large/thangka035lg.jpg" rel="nofollow">Orgyen Menla</a> from the Dudjom Tersar. I know there’s probably no connection, but this image almost reminds me of Orgyen Menla from the Dudjom Tersar.

]]> By: earlytibet http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-874 earlytibet Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:25:23 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-874 Hi Dan, Nice translation and appreciation of those verses. Somebody (you?) should look into the appearance of kāvya-style verses in the terma tradition. I mean that this very literary style is always discussed in the context of the more scholastic traditions, but it's there in the work of Longchenpa and Jigme Lingpa. Anyway, thanks for explaining that padmaråga is not an error for padmaråja. In fact, it must be a kind of pun. I very much like the idea of Padmasambhava as the "international Buddha." Padmasambhava's visit to Turfan in the 13th century was a local trip compared to his worldwide presence today. If I may retranslate the third line a bit more loosely: "With your kindness not for any one place but for every country..." Hi Dan,

Nice translation and appreciation of those verses. Somebody (you?) should look into the appearance of kāvya-style verses in the terma tradition. I mean that this very literary style is always discussed in the context of the more scholastic traditions, but it’s there in the work of Longchenpa and Jigme Lingpa. Anyway, thanks for explaining that padmaråga is not an error for padmaråja. In fact, it must be a kind of pun.

I very much like the idea of Padmasambhava as the “international Buddha.” Padmasambhava’s visit to Turfan in the 13th century was a local trip compared to his worldwide presence today. If I may retranslate the third line a bit more loosely: “With your kindness not for any one place but for every country…”

]]> By: bla-ma lDing-sdong http://earlytibet.com/2008/09/09/padmasambhava-ii-the-dark-padmasambhava/#comment-872 bla-ma lDing-sdong Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:51:23 +0000 http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=243#comment-872 The "the dark Padmasambhava" appears to be at least not unknown amongst modern painting traditions. You could buy a thangka depicting him for EUR 284.00 here (had it not been sold already): http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/TL44/ The “the dark Padmasambhava” appears to be at least not unknown amongst modern painting traditions. You could buy a thangka depicting him for EUR 284.00 here (had it not been sold already):

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/TL44/

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