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	<title>Comments on: Buddhism and Bon IV: What is bon anyway?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/</link>
	<description>Notes, thoughts and fragments of research on the history of Tibet</description>
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		<title>By: earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-2154</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[earlytibet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 21:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-2154</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and it might just be relevant that Btsan-lha (quoted in Dan Martin&#039;s dictionary) glosses &lt;i&gt;&#039;chu ba&lt;/i&gt; with &lt;i&gt;&#039;phrog pa&lt;/i&gt; -- which appears in the funerary myth in the Old Tibetan Chronicle...as you know.

http://earlytibet.com/2008/10/27/between-death-and-the-tomb/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and it might just be relevant that Btsan-lha (quoted in Dan Martin&#8217;s dictionary) glosses <i>&#8216;chu ba</i> with <i>&#8216;phrog pa</i> &#8212; which appears in the funerary myth in the Old Tibetan Chronicle&#8230;as you know.</p>
<p><a href="http://earlytibet.com/2008/10/27/between-death-and-the-tomb/" rel="nofollow">http://earlytibet.com/2008/10/27/between-death-and-the-tomb/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-2153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[earlytibet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 20:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-2153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BD,

Thanks for that insight into &lt;i&gt;bcu ba&lt;/i&gt;; it works very well. I think a new translation is in order, after your and Malcolm&#039;s comments. I wouldn&#039;t too concerned about the lack of overlap with Pha bong ka&#039;s note, given the span of time between the two texts.

And yes, &quot;the bonpo-s of Tibet&quot;... Perhaps relevant to the issue of to what extent the bonpo should be considered a &#039;religion&#039; before the 10th/11th century. The author of this tract does seem to identify them as a group, even if only to point out that they have no coherent narrative to justify their rituals. And why the need to specify Tibet? Where were the other bonpo-s from? Perhaps relevant to this is the fact that &quot;bon po&quot; was used to translate terms for heretical teachers in Chinese sutras (as RA Stein pointed out), so - perhaps - for Buddhist writers, &quot;bon po&quot; could refer to any non-Buddhist ritualist. Thus the need to specify the Tibetan brand. Anyway, it is clear that the author links these Tibetan bonpo-s specifically with funeral rituals.

S.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BD,</p>
<p>Thanks for that insight into <i>bcu ba</i>; it works very well. I think a new translation is in order, after your and Malcolm&#8217;s comments. I wouldn&#8217;t too concerned about the lack of overlap with Pha bong ka&#8217;s note, given the span of time between the two texts.</p>
<p>And yes, &#8220;the bonpo-s of Tibet&#8221;&#8230; Perhaps relevant to the issue of to what extent the bonpo should be considered a &#8216;religion&#8217; before the 10th/11th century. The author of this tract does seem to identify them as a group, even if only to point out that they have no coherent narrative to justify their rituals. And why the need to specify Tibet? Where were the other bonpo-s from? Perhaps relevant to this is the fact that &#8220;bon po&#8221; was used to translate terms for heretical teachers in Chinese sutras (as RA Stein pointed out), so &#8211; perhaps &#8211; for Buddhist writers, &#8220;bon po&#8221; could refer to any non-Buddhist ritualist. Thus the need to specify the Tibetan brand. Anyway, it is clear that the author links these Tibetan bonpo-s specifically with funeral rituals.</p>
<p>S.</p>
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		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-2151</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-2151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about bcu ba as the verb &#039;chu ba, &quot;to draw out (water,etc.)&quot; (bcu is attested as future stem, bcus as past)?  just a thought...

Fits nicely with the embalming theory.

Then again, at a glance these terms don&#039;t overlap much with Pha bong ka&#039;s short note on embalming (Uebach in Tibet Journal 30.2)

On the form of this document, see Heather Stoddard&#039;s article on stitched books in Chayet, et al, Edition, Editions. Stoddard suggests that stitched books, like those in Dga&#039; thang stupa, might have at one time been a largely bon/Bon form. (see p. 377.)

What I find most interesting? The phrase bod kyi bon po rnams.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about bcu ba as the verb &#8216;chu ba, &#8220;to draw out (water,etc.)&#8221; (bcu is attested as future stem, bcus as past)?  just a thought&#8230;</p>
<p>Fits nicely with the embalming theory.</p>
<p>Then again, at a glance these terms don&#8217;t overlap much with Pha bong ka&#8217;s short note on embalming (Uebach in Tibet Journal 30.2)</p>
<p>On the form of this document, see Heather Stoddard&#8217;s article on stitched books in Chayet, et al, Edition, Editions. Stoddard suggests that stitched books, like those in Dga&#8217; thang stupa, might have at one time been a largely bon/Bon form. (see p. 377.)</p>
<p>What I find most interesting? The phrase bod kyi bon po rnams.</p>
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		<title>By: earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-1979</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[earlytibet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 12:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-1979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Malcolm,

Many thanks for your insights on *rjes bcad* in this text. I like your interpretation of this as an embalming process, and the connections with later medical literature are fascinating. It seems that the term *dpyad* really can&#039;t mean diagnosis in this context. Any idea of how it might have been used here?

S.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malcolm,</p>
<p>Many thanks for your insights on *rjes bcad* in this text. I like your interpretation of this as an embalming process, and the connections with later medical literature are fascinating. It seems that the term *dpyad* really can&#8217;t mean diagnosis in this context. Any idea of how it might have been used here?</p>
<p>S.</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-1977</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Malcolm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-1977</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot; “rjes bcad de nyid bcu ba”.

How about the &quot;that erasure of tracks itself is ten-fold&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; “rjes bcad de nyid bcu ba”.</p>
<p>How about the &#8220;that erasure of tracks itself is ten-fold&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-1976</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Malcolm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-1976</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Sam:

&quot;rjes bcad&quot; in medicine means &quot;erasing the tracks&quot; i.e. for example, the leftover heat after a fever. dpyad here means the treatments used for erasing the tracks, usually bloodletting or moxa. 

The reason medical terms are used, I would speculate, is that whole process refers to embalmment. So, the rjes bcad and dpyad would refer to the process of preparing the cadaver in some fashion, the sman is the substances used to preserve the cadaver once prepared and then of course the cadaver is gussied up. 

Just some speculations...

Malcolm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sam:</p>
<p>&#8220;rjes bcad&#8221; in medicine means &#8220;erasing the tracks&#8221; i.e. for example, the leftover heat after a fever. dpyad here means the treatments used for erasing the tracks, usually bloodletting or moxa. </p>
<p>The reason medical terms are used, I would speculate, is that whole process refers to embalmment. So, the rjes bcad and dpyad would refer to the process of preparing the cadaver in some fashion, the sman is the substances used to preserve the cadaver once prepared and then of course the cadaver is gussied up. </p>
<p>Just some speculations&#8230;</p>
<p>Malcolm</p>
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		<title>By: Kalden Yungdsrung</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-1678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kalden Yungdsrung]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jun 2010 20:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-1678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello dear readers,

Please go to the above mentioned link to get more informations regarding Bon and the Bonpos

Best wishes
Kalden Yungdrung
President foundation Yungdrung Rignga Ling / the netherlands]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello dear readers,</p>
<p>Please go to the above mentioned link to get more informations regarding Bon and the Bonpos</p>
<p>Best wishes<br />
Kalden Yungdrung<br />
President foundation Yungdrung Rignga Ling / the netherlands</p>
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		<title>By: PDSz</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-1345</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PDSz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-1345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pretty amazing discovery! I am particularly puzzled by the expression &quot;rjes bcad de nyid bcu ba&quot;. Do you have any idea what it can mean in this context? (ie not the de nyid bcu we know about)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty amazing discovery! I am particularly puzzled by the expression &#8220;rjes bcad de nyid bcu ba&#8221;. Do you have any idea what it can mean in this context? (ie not the de nyid bcu we know about)</p>
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		<title>By: earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-1343</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[earlytibet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-1343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Jed,

Thank you for the idea about &lt;i&gt;sman&lt;/i&gt;. We also have &lt;i&gt;rjes bcad&lt;/i&gt; which in the later medical tradition means &quot;wiping away the traces&quot;, as in (I think) completely eradicating a disease, but it could have a different significance here.

As for &lt;i&gt;gtshen&lt;/i&gt;, I&#039;ve amended my reading of this syllable to &lt;i&gt;gnon&lt;/i&gt; which at least is a recognizable word, though it&#039;s significance in this context is still not clear to me.

S.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Jed,</p>
<p>Thank you for the idea about <i>sman</i>. We also have <i>rjes bcad</i> which in the later medical tradition means &#8220;wiping away the traces&#8221;, as in (I think) completely eradicating a disease, but it could have a different significance here.</p>
<p>As for <i>gtshen</i>, I&#8217;ve amended my reading of this syllable to <i>gnon</i> which at least is a recognizable word, though it&#8217;s significance in this context is still not clear to me.</p>
<p>S.</p>
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		<title>By: Jed Verity</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2009/08/24/buddhism-and-bon-iv/#comment-1342</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jed Verity]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=537#comment-1342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is great to see this kind of information and analysis appear on the internet. Thank you!

Maybe sman was also used in a broader sense &quot;to benefit,&quot; thus generally improving [the condition of] the corpse? Also, what did you find for gtshen?

Thanks again. I&#039;ve really enjoyed your posts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is great to see this kind of information and analysis appear on the internet. Thank you!</p>
<p>Maybe sman was also used in a broader sense &#8220;to benefit,&#8221; thus generally improving [the condition of] the corpse? Also, what did you find for gtshen?</p>
<p>Thanks again. I&#8217;ve really enjoyed your posts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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