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	<title>Comments for earlyTibet.com</title>
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	<link>http://earlytibet.com</link>
	<description>Notes, thoughts and fragments of research on the history of Tibet</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 02:21:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Blood writing by Jimmy Yu</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2012/05/03/blood-writing/#comment-2656</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimmy Yu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 02:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1315#comment-2656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sometimes Chinese clerics mix fine gold powder with blood in their blood sutras. The Tibetan yellow calligraphy doesn&#039;t look like the golden hue of blood; it&#039;s too artificial looking to be blood. Instead it might have some gold powder mixed into it. Pigment identification may help in this case as well.
Using nosebleeds for blood writing would never be done by Chinese clerics... it would be sacrilegious! I&#039;ve never come across that before. Three places used were: chest, close to the heart; sub-lingual part (underside) of the tongue; finger tips--all of these have a symbolic valence and involve physical pain, which is an important part of self-sacrifice.
Thanks for continuing this discussion!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes Chinese clerics mix fine gold powder with blood in their blood sutras. The Tibetan yellow calligraphy doesn&#8217;t look like the golden hue of blood; it&#8217;s too artificial looking to be blood. Instead it might have some gold powder mixed into it. Pigment identification may help in this case as well.<br />
Using nosebleeds for blood writing would never be done by Chinese clerics&#8230; it would be sacrilegious! I&#8217;ve never come across that before. Three places used were: chest, close to the heart; sub-lingual part (underside) of the tongue; finger tips&#8211;all of these have a symbolic valence and involve physical pain, which is an important part of self-sacrifice.<br />
Thanks for continuing this discussion!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Blood writing by earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2012/05/03/blood-writing/#comment-2655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[earlytibet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 20:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1315#comment-2655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many thanks, Jimmy, for the information on different kinds of ink preparation involving blood. The discussion about blood ink drying in different colours is very interesting. It called to mind another manuscript, &lt;a href=&quot;http://idp.bl.uk/database/oo_loader.a4d?pm=Pelliot%20tib%C3%A9tain%20385;img=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pelliot tibétain 385&lt;/a&gt; which has a strange light yellow ink. Thanks also for the link to your new book, which I have put in the references. Thanks also to David for the reference to John Kieschnicks&#039;s article, which I&#039;ve also added. 

And Dan, nice to see you here again as well! I suppose whether or not the Tibetan emperor&#039;s nosebleeds were really kept and used to make ink, the very idea that this was done points to some kind of culture in which blood writing was considered sacred in Tibet as well. 

S.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks, Jimmy, for the information on different kinds of ink preparation involving blood. The discussion about blood ink drying in different colours is very interesting. It called to mind another manuscript, <a href="http://idp.bl.uk/database/oo_loader.a4d?pm=Pelliot%20tib%C3%A9tain%20385;img=1" rel="nofollow">Pelliot tibétain 385</a> which has a strange light yellow ink. Thanks also for the link to your new book, which I have put in the references. Thanks also to David for the reference to John Kieschnicks&#8217;s article, which I&#8217;ve also added. </p>
<p>And Dan, nice to see you here again as well! I suppose whether or not the Tibetan emperor&#8217;s nosebleeds were really kept and used to make ink, the very idea that this was done points to some kind of culture in which blood writing was considered sacred in Tibet as well. </p>
<p>S.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Blood writing by Dan</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2012/05/03/blood-writing/#comment-2647</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 18:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1315#comment-2647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Sam, Nice to see you blogging again.  You may know, but way back in around 1990 I was trying to say something more than I was capable of (some things never change) in my dissertation, in one of those parts that never reached a published state.  It was about the (post-Phyi-dar) Tibetan stories detailing the earliest manuscripts of the Tibetan-translated 100,000 Prajnaparamita Sutra.  Stories that some were written in goat&#039;s milk ink were probably based in a misunderstanding of that interesting word reg-[g]zig that means &#039;abridgement&#039; as if it were supposed to be ra-gzigs and therefore having to do with goats (ra)...  But I would take more seriously the idea that some manuscript or another was made with ink containing the &#039;nasal vermillion&#039; of the Tibetan emperor (or other royal figure).  The nasal vermillion idea is interesting, especially given J.Y&#039;s comment about cinnabar, but also because it&#039;s a well known relic substance (shangs mtshal; with sku mtshal as the more general zhe-sa form meaning &#039;blood&#039;) in the kinds of literature that talk about relics.  &#039;Nasal vermillion&#039; really means the blood from a nose bleed.  Of course for ink-making purposes it could be quite easy to provoke a nose bleed in the dry air of the high mountains, I&#039;d think.

Yours,
D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sam, Nice to see you blogging again.  You may know, but way back in around 1990 I was trying to say something more than I was capable of (some things never change) in my dissertation, in one of those parts that never reached a published state.  It was about the (post-Phyi-dar) Tibetan stories detailing the earliest manuscripts of the Tibetan-translated 100,000 Prajnaparamita Sutra.  Stories that some were written in goat&#8217;s milk ink were probably based in a misunderstanding of that interesting word reg-[g]zig that means &#8216;abridgement&#8217; as if it were supposed to be ra-gzigs and therefore having to do with goats (ra)&#8230;  But I would take more seriously the idea that some manuscript or another was made with ink containing the &#8216;nasal vermillion&#8217; of the Tibetan emperor (or other royal figure).  The nasal vermillion idea is interesting, especially given J.Y&#8217;s comment about cinnabar, but also because it&#8217;s a well known relic substance (shangs mtshal; with sku mtshal as the more general zhe-sa form meaning &#8216;blood&#8217;) in the kinds of literature that talk about relics.  &#8216;Nasal vermillion&#8217; really means the blood from a nose bleed.  Of course for ink-making purposes it could be quite easy to provoke a nose bleed in the dry air of the high mountains, I&#8217;d think.</p>
<p>Yours,<br />
D</p>
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		<title>Comment on Blood writing by David Chapman</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2012/05/03/blood-writing/#comment-2645</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Chapman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 16:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1315#comment-2645</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What an odd coincidence. I was just a few minutes ago reading about John Kieschnick&#039;s &#039;Blood Writing in Chinese Buddhism,&#039; &lt;i&gt;Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies&lt;/i&gt;, (2000) 23.2, pp.177-194 (mentioned in Paul Williams&#039; &lt;i&gt;Mahayana Buddhism: The Doctrinal Foundations&lt;/i&gt;).

Full text is available at: http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/ojs/index.php/jiabs/article/view/9174/3032]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an odd coincidence. I was just a few minutes ago reading about John Kieschnick&#8217;s &#8216;Blood Writing in Chinese Buddhism,&#8217; <i>Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies</i>, (2000) 23.2, pp.177-194 (mentioned in Paul Williams&#8217; <i>Mahayana Buddhism: The Doctrinal Foundations</i>).</p>
<p>Full text is available at: <a href="http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/ojs/index.php/jiabs/article/view/9174/3032" rel="nofollow">http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/ojs/index.php/jiabs/article/view/9174/3032</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Blood writing by Jimmy Yu</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2012/05/03/blood-writing/#comment-2644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jimmy Yu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 15:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1315#comment-2644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for posting this. It&#039;s great that you have found a blood sutra in Tibetan! I asked my Tibetan Buddhist scholar friends and they have never came across blood scriptures in Tibetan. 

I believe you&#039;re right about the old man who might have just dropped a few drops of blood into the inkwell to write the Diamond Sutra. Out of hundreds of (premodern) blood scriptures I have looked at, I have never seen the color darken to black. In fact, I came across a discussion (in a premodern Buddhist text) about how to interpret the color of the blood when it darkens or lightens. Supposedly if the color lightens to a golden hue, then this shows the purity of the writer&#039;s spiritual attainment. If it turns black, then his body (and mind) is defiled. But this is copying a text using only one&#039;s blood--not mixing it with black ink. Apparently there are some received ideas about the color of the blood writings. Chinese monks in premodern times would mix cinnabar, which has a transformative element connected to &quot;Daoist&quot; outer alchemy practice, with their blood. Cinnabar also helps preserve the blood manuscript, preventing bugs from eating away at the characters (you see this in the Chinese case). The colors of those ms mixed with cinnabar are clearly artificial looking. There are a few Dunhuang &quot;blood&quot; manuscripts (and banner paintings) like that.

In the 17th century, blood writing became an accepted means of expressing sanctity and honor. However, the symbolic valence of using blood is quite complex. I deal with the symbolic, social, and corporeal significance of blood in my book (Sanctity and Self-Inflicted Violence through Oxford). Thanks for posting this. - Jimmy Yu]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for posting this. It&#8217;s great that you have found a blood sutra in Tibetan! I asked my Tibetan Buddhist scholar friends and they have never came across blood scriptures in Tibetan. </p>
<p>I believe you&#8217;re right about the old man who might have just dropped a few drops of blood into the inkwell to write the Diamond Sutra. Out of hundreds of (premodern) blood scriptures I have looked at, I have never seen the color darken to black. In fact, I came across a discussion (in a premodern Buddhist text) about how to interpret the color of the blood when it darkens or lightens. Supposedly if the color lightens to a golden hue, then this shows the purity of the writer&#8217;s spiritual attainment. If it turns black, then his body (and mind) is defiled. But this is copying a text using only one&#8217;s blood&#8211;not mixing it with black ink. Apparently there are some received ideas about the color of the blood writings. Chinese monks in premodern times would mix cinnabar, which has a transformative element connected to &#8220;Daoist&#8221; outer alchemy practice, with their blood. Cinnabar also helps preserve the blood manuscript, preventing bugs from eating away at the characters (you see this in the Chinese case). The colors of those ms mixed with cinnabar are clearly artificial looking. There are a few Dunhuang &#8220;blood&#8221; manuscripts (and banner paintings) like that.</p>
<p>In the 17th century, blood writing became an accepted means of expressing sanctity and honor. However, the symbolic valence of using blood is quite complex. I deal with the symbolic, social, and corporeal significance of blood in my book (Sanctity and Self-Inflicted Violence through Oxford). Thanks for posting this. &#8211; Jimmy Yu</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Earliest Evidence of Bonpo Rituals? by earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2012/01/31/the-earliest-evidence-of-bonpo-rituals/#comment-2624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[earlytibet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 09:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1287#comment-2624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rob,

There are not very many other types of deities mentioned in the wooden slips. As well as &lt;i&gt;yul lha&lt;/i&gt; we have the compound &lt;i&gt;yul lha yul bdag&lt;/i&gt; which seems to refer to a single deity (though it is not clear). We have &lt;em&gt;sman&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;g.yang&lt;/em&gt;, and we also have &lt;em&gt;rtse lha&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;rtse sman&lt;/em&gt;. 

S.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob,</p>
<p>There are not very many other types of deities mentioned in the wooden slips. As well as <i>yul lha</i> we have the compound <i>yul lha yul bdag</i> which seems to refer to a single deity (though it is not clear). We have <em>sman</em> and <em>g.yang</em>, and we also have <em>rtse lha</em> and <em>rtse sman</em>. </p>
<p>S.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Earliest Evidence of Bonpo Rituals? by Rob</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2012/01/31/the-earliest-evidence-of-bonpo-rituals/#comment-2621</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 14:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1287#comment-2621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sam, this is such valuable data. I am particularly interested in the types of deities listed in these 9th century sources. You mention jul lha, sman and g.yang. In Khu tsha zla &#039;od&#039;s 13th century Phur pa gter ma, he includes a remarkably long register of non-Buddhist deities. I am interested to know which ones were already attested in 9th century sources.  Rob]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam, this is such valuable data. I am particularly interested in the types of deities listed in these 9th century sources. You mention jul lha, sman and g.yang. In Khu tsha zla &#8216;od&#8217;s 13th century Phur pa gter ma, he includes a remarkably long register of non-Buddhist deities. I am interested to know which ones were already attested in 9th century sources.  Rob</p>
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		<title>Comment on Dunhuang and the &#8216;new&#8217; schools by tengesar</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2008/02/08/dunhuang-and-the-new-schools/#comment-2620</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tengesar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 21:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.wordpress.com/?p=145#comment-2620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for this fascinating post.  I am really curious to know  what are some important differences in translations between the &#039;old&#039; and the &#039;new&#039; in terms of styles or terms employed in translating the Guhyasamaja tantra. Can you give me links to their versions or discuss it a little. 
As a lay Tibetan trained predominantly  in the &#039;new&#039;, I often find it fascinating to find that the Nyingma translations are easier to understand and the terms employed are  more &quot;Tibetan&quot; in their feel.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this fascinating post.  I am really curious to know  what are some important differences in translations between the &#8216;old&#8217; and the &#8216;new&#8217; in terms of styles or terms employed in translating the Guhyasamaja tantra. Can you give me links to their versions or discuss it a little.<br />
As a lay Tibetan trained predominantly  in the &#8216;new&#8217;, I often find it fascinating to find that the Nyingma translations are easier to understand and the terms employed are  more &#8220;Tibetan&#8221; in their feel.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tibetan Chan V: Dzogchen and Chan by earlytibet</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2011/11/22/tibetan-chan-v/#comment-2607</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[earlytibet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1182#comment-2607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Erik,

Indeed, you should be sceptical towards such an idea, and it&#039;s not an idea I&#039;m suggesting here! In &lt;a href=&quot;http://earlytibet.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/vanschaik_dalton_2004.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an article&lt;/a&gt; written with Jacob Dalton some years ago, we documented a case of influence. What I&#039;m arguing against in this post is the idea that Chan was the primary influence upon Dzogchen, and the problems inherent in &quot;proving&quot; this by selecting texts from both traditions, putting them alongside each other and pointing out their similarities.

S.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Erik,</p>
<p>Indeed, you should be sceptical towards such an idea, and it&#8217;s not an idea I&#8217;m suggesting here! In <a href="http://earlytibet.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/vanschaik_dalton_2004.pdf" rel="nofollow">an article</a> written with Jacob Dalton some years ago, we documented a case of influence. What I&#8217;m arguing against in this post is the idea that Chan was the primary influence upon Dzogchen, and the problems inherent in &#8220;proving&#8221; this by selecting texts from both traditions, putting them alongside each other and pointing out their similarities.</p>
<p>S.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tibetan Chan V: Dzogchen and Chan by Erik Meier Carlsen</title>
		<link>http://earlytibet.com/2011/11/22/tibetan-chan-v/#comment-2605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erik Meier Carlsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlytibet.com/?p=1182#comment-2605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As an apparent late reader of this interesting bloga-article I have very strong skepsis towards the idea that two streams of buddhist engagements coexisting in the same areas in the same formative period should not have influenced each-other and developed in a proces of interchange.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an apparent late reader of this interesting bloga-article I have very strong skepsis towards the idea that two streams of buddhist engagements coexisting in the same areas in the same formative period should not have influenced each-other and developed in a proces of interchange.</p>
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